Umgcini odla umhlala-phantsi uJosé Manuel Villarejo wahlala phantsi no-ABC emva kokutyelela indawo yaseTorre Picasso, entliziyweni yezemali yaseMadrid kunye nekomkhulu layo iminyaka engamashumi amathathu. Kwinkangeleko yokuqala ayinika amajelo eendaba esizwe okoko wakhululwayo entolongweni, ngo-2021, waphikisana kangangeeyure ezintathu ngokurhoxa kwabo bathi, betsalile intambo, abasenalo ikamva ezandleni zabo. Ulindele isigwebo kwiNkundla yeSizwe esinokumbuyisela entolongweni.
-Ngokutsho kwakho, i-CNI irekhode izenzo zabo kwaye yabanika iiteyiphu. Yiyo ke ifayile yakho.
- Kanjalo. Ixesha elininzi bezisiwa kum ekhaya. Babengabaqweqwedisi, ababezibiza ngokuba ziinjineli ezivela kwiziko le-cryptographic. Baye bagoduke kwaye kumajelo athile emimandla eyahlukeneyo esemhlabeni, babevula baze bavale ngezinye iinkqubo ezaziphuma kwi-Intanethi, simahla, njengesiqinisekiso sokuba ezi rekhodiweyo azisayi kuze zisetyenziswe kwaye ndiza kuba negunya phezu kwazo.
-Isebenze njani?
Badla ngokusebenzisa ifowuni. Ngamanye amaxesha, njengodliwano-ndlebe olubonileyo noNksk. Corinna, ndibe nelinye iqela.
-Uya kuvuma ukuba luguqulelo oluphikisanayo, oluneekhasethi ezingaphezu kwamashumi amathathu eminyaka eyadlulayo…
-I-inertia ekhoyo kuthi sonke singabameli bezobuntlola kukurekhoda lonke ungenelelo lwethu. Maxa wambi iikhasethi zemakrofoni zaziba zizixhobo ezazindishiya, kodwa liyinyaniso elokuba ndandithabatha inyathelo lokuqala lokurekhoda ezinye.
- Ngantoni na elungileyo?
-Ukusetyenziswa rhoqo. Ubungqina boku kukuba i-fut imisiwe, ubukho baloo fayile akuzange kwaziwe.
-Uthe unomhlobo orekhodileyo uCorinna Larsen. “Imibhalo esixhenxe ngaphandle kwamanye amazwe” yaye enye ikhona ukuze ibanjwe. Ngaba ucinga ukuba kuyanceda ukuphepha ityala lolwaphulo-mthetho?
-Andizange ndicinge ukuba ukuthatha amanyathelo njenge-arhente yezobuntlola kuya kukhokelela kwizenzo zolwaphulo-mthetho. Ndeva ukuba ubungqina bomsebenzi wam yiloo fayile kanye.
"Bandityala ngaphandle kwentolongo ukuze bafumane ulwazi lokukhupha i-Crown"
Le fayile kwaxoxwa ngayo kwintlebendwane eMadrid kodwa ibhokisi kaPandora ayizange ivulwe kwada kwangoJulayi 2018, xa uVillarejo wayesele evalelwe okwethutyana iinyanga ezisixhenxe etyholwa, phakathi kolunye ulwaphulo-mthetho, lokurhwaphiliza imali kunye nokunyoba.
-Ngaba utsale abafowunelwa ukuzama ukuphuma entolongweni?
-Kwakungekho mfuneko yokutsala abafowunelwa, ukugqiba kum. Ngokukhawuleza nje ukuba isindululo sokukhalinyelwa senzeke kwaye uMaría Dolores (Delgado) wamiselwa njengoMphathiswa wezoBulungisa, waqala ukutyelelwa ngabagwebi abambalwa nabatshutshisi, abantu abachanelekileyo nabafunde kakhulu ababenika ithuba lokuhamba ukuze bandinikele. Le okanye leya nto. Ndaza ndathi, Ndilungile. Ekuphela kwento andikhanyele ukuba ndithathe inxaxheba kuyo kukugxothwa nguMantshinga. Ndathi akunjalo, ukuba yayiyimpazamo kwicala le-Socialist Party, ukuba yayiyinjongo leyo, kuba yayisoloko ingumbutho onzulu kunye noRhulumente.
'Ucinga ukuba ngoobani ababefuna ukuthatha inxaxheba kuqhaqho lokugxothwa kweCrown?'
-Ndicinga ukuba umntu osondeleyo kakhulu kuMongameli kaRhulumente.
"UGarzón noDelgado ngebendenzele enye into ukuba bebefuna ukundinceda"
Kunzima ukuba uVillarejo uyakhanyela ukuba unento yokwenza nokuvuza kwaye unethiyori ephilileyo yemvelaphi ekhomba kumtshutshisi kunye nentatheli, i-audios kaCorinna Larsen eya kugqiba ibangele uphando lukaDon Juan Carlos kwaye kamva, ukufudukela kwakhe e-Abu Dhabi, kwavela ekukhanyeni ngaloo mihla, ngoJulayi 11.
-Nangona kunjalo, ubudlelwane kunye noMphathiswa wezoBulungisa baqhubeka bugcinwa kwaye kulapho ngoSeptemba, ngokukhawuleza, ngaphandle kwendawo, i-medium ebizwa ngokuba yi-moncloa.com yaphuma kwaye bahluza isidlo esidumileyo endinaso kunye noMphathiswa wezoBulungisa xa Yayingumtshutshisi, uMaría Dolores. Into endiyifumene kamva, kwaye ngokucacileyo andinabungqina, kukuba uSanz Roldán waqinisekisa uMphathiswa wezoKhuseleko, owayengenabuhlobo kakhulu noDelgado, ukuba wayezama ukundenza ndithethe ngeCrown. Yayingumjukujelwa ukuzama ukumsusa endleleni
-Ukusukela ngoko?
-Ndade ndaphuma entolongweni, abathunywa ababesithi bavela kwiOfisi yoMtshutshisi bazama ngokucwangcisiweyo ukuba ndibaxelele into malunga noNksk Delgado okanye uMnu. Garzón kwaye ndiza kukhululwa ngokukhawuleza, kwaye ndathi 'soze'. Yaye andithethanga yaye andisayi kuthetha nto nxamnye nabo, nangona ndinoluvo lwam lobuqu endiqondayo ukuba bebenokuthi, eneneni, ukuba bebenomdla wokundinceda, bandenzele okuthile okungakumbi.
-Ukuvuza kuqhubekile ukwenzeka. Ngaba awuzigcinanga iikopi zayo yonke loo nto, nditsho naseMiami?
-Abantu bathetha ukuba ndingayifumana ikopi ngaphandle. Kwimeko nayiphi na into, nokuba ndinayo okanye andinayo ayindincedi kangako kuba njengesiseko sokhuseleko, logama nje ndingayi kuyithatha, abayi kuyinika mntu kwaye ngaphandle kokuba ndife, ndiyacinga. loo nto ayiyi kuvela ekukhanyeni. Ndacinga ukuba balungiselela ukuzibulala, oko kukuthi, andiqondi ukuba kuza kuthatha ixesha elide de kuvele ezinye izinto ezininzi.
-Bekukho umlingane wakho osuka kwimodyuli entolongweni esusa iaudios kunye neengxelo ezivela eVillarejo nakwimivalo yaseSan Sebastián...
-Yena ngokwakhe uye wavakalisa ukuba uye wayenza ngokwakhe.
Kwaye iincoko ezininzi eziyekelelayo zenzekile…
– Andiqondi ukuba nabani na kuthi apha unokuma incoko yabucala ngasese kwaye ngokupheleleyo, masithi, indawo ekhululekileyo. Inye ke into enokuthi ixatyiswe okanye ingaxatyiswa ngokwembono xa kuxoxwa ngokusemthethweni. Yiloo nto ke wonke umntu exhalabileyo, kuba iincoko ezikwifayile yam zonke zikwimeko ekhululekileyo, apho uyaziyo indlela umntu acinga ngayo, aziphatha ngayo okanye aqhula ngayo ngezinto ezibalulekileyo.
“Ndandisiya entolongweni yaye ucwangciso lwam alunamsebenzi. Bonke abantu endibancedileyo ngenceba yam banyamalala.
– Ngaba ugcina nabuphi na ubuhlobo oburekhodiweyo?
-Phantse akukho. Uninzi lomsebenzi wam wemihla ngemihla, njengoko ubonwa kwidayari yam yobuqu, yayikukunceda abanye. Kwakuza kuvalelwa entolongweni yaye ucwangciso lwam lwalungenanto kakhulu. Usapho lwam, umfazi wam kunye nentombi yam eneminyaka esithoba ubudala, kwafuneka baphile ngenceba yabantakwethu, abahlobo bam abambalwa kakhulu kunye nabantwana bam. Bonke abantu endibancedileyo ngenceba yam baphela. Yanyamalala ngokupheleleyo.
-Wacinga ntoni xa uzibona ungena entolongweni?
Bendisoloko ndizama ukuba noburharha. Ukuba bendilapho kangangeenyanga ezimbini, ezintathu, okanye ezine, ngendikufumanise kungamava abangel’ umdla. Kukho abantu abahlonipheke kakhulu apho. Kwakuphantse kube yiminyaka emine, bayichitha kunye neqhula. Kodwa yayindifanela. Umculo kunye nokufunda kwandisindisa, ndiyacinga.
-Xa ephuma entolongweni, waxela kwangaphambili "i-catharsis", kodwa iintsika zikaRhulumente zihlala apho zikhona.
-Ndicinga ukuba kukho i-catharse apho eyaziwayo, kodwa yiza, bendibhekisela kwiingxelo zam. Ndachaza yonke into ngokupheleleyo oko yaphuma. Enye into kukuba ngenxa yezizathu ezingaziwayo, ngokuqwalasela inxalenye yecala le-Tandem njengeemfihlo zombuso, kunye neziqwenga ezivulekayo kwaye zivale ngaphandle kokuba igqwetha lam liyazi.
Ukuba bendinokwenza imali ngolwazi lwamapolisa, ngendingazange ndenze igolide, kodwa 'orísimo'"
Ezo ziqwenga, ekwindla ka-2018 babesisibini ngenxa yokuba ijaji kweli tyala, u-Diego de Egea, akazange ayibone ngokucacileyo, ifikelele kwi-36 kwaye uninzi lulandela ipateni efanayo yokutyhola: umkomishinala osebenzayo ogama lakhe liqeshwe ngabantu ngabanye. , ngokunokwenzeka, ukuqokelelwa kwedatha kwiziseko zamapolisa, ukufumana imigibe kumaqela esithathu anengxabano nawo.
-Ngaphezu kweshumi leminyaka sisebenza kwisiseko esifanayo, esekelwe kwiTorre Picasso. Kutheni ucinga ukuba kude kube ngu-2017 akukho mntu wenze nto ngokuchasene nawe?
-Kuba ngokulula nangokulula kwakungekho mthethweni. Enye into kukuba kwakusemthethweni okanye ukuba ngandlela-thile imeko ye-arhente efihlakeleyo njengoko isemthethweni, yahlukile kwimeko nganye, kodwa kukho imeko yakutshanje, ukuba iCatalonia ingene njenge-arhente efihlakeleyo iminyaka emithathu kwaye ayikho. ngenxa yomsebenzi othile . Ngaba iGrande-Marlaska inokuba nee-coverts?
-Awuzange ube nolawulo lwenkundla
-Icacile. Ngaphandle kolawulo lwenkundla kuba nangona xa izinto zibalulekile, ziyatshutshiswa, uninzi lwamanqaku am obuntlola zange atshutshiswe. Yayingamanqaku olwazi endiwaziyo kwaye aphelela kwiiyunithi ezikhethekileyo. I-90% yolwazi lobuntlola oluveliswe yi-CNI ayinakuze ibe nokufaneleka kokugweba.
-Wayengumkomishinala osebenzayo, loo nto ayikwenzi ukuba angahambelani?
-Kwakungekho ukungahambelani kuba andizange ndidibanise izenzo zam ezisemthethweni kunye nezenzo zam zangasese, kwaye ulwazi endilufumene kwizenzo zamapolisa aluzange lube nenzuzo. Ukuba akunjalo, ngendingazange ndenze igolide, ngendizenzele 'orísimo'. Kukho umntu owayezazi, wazenza zaba nengeniso waza wazisebenzisa ukuze kungenelwe uRhulumente. Into abandityhola ngayo kukutyhila iimfihlo zokugcina iikopi zeefowunelwa zetrafikhi okanye ze-347 yeNondyebo. Kwezinye iimeko kuye kwabonwa ukuba bahlala kakhulu kubacuphi namagqwetha kangangokuba abanalo ubunzima.
-Iinkampani zakho zizuza njani kuRhulumente?
– Ezi nkampani zasebenza njenge-inshorensi yokungena kwimiba yobuntlola kwezoqoqosho. Izizwe ngezizwe sisiqwenga saseSpain ekufuneka sikhuselwe.
Abane kubo baye benzakaliswa kakhulu ngokubizelwa kwiNkundla yeSizwe ngokubhenela kwiinkonzo zeVillarejo: Iberdrola, BBVA, Repsol kunye neCaixabank. Umkomishinala, ekuphenduleni ubutshaba bakhe kunye nowayesakuba yintloko yeMicimbi yaNgaphakathi, uMarcelino Martín Blas, omtyhola ngokubambana ne-CNI, uchaza ingcamango yakhe:
-Izenzo zeMicimbi yangaphakathi kwimeko yam ziye zakwazi ukufumana bonke abasebenzi bezokhuseleko kwi-Ibex yonke kwaye ngoku bangama-colonels e-CNI okanye i-CNI agents, abalawulayo. Unomdla kangakanani. Hayi?
"Andicingi ukuba nabani na kwabakhoyo apha unokuma incoko yabucala kwindawo yabucala kwaye ngokupheleleyo, masithi, siphumle"
Kodwa ukongeza kwiiprojekthi zabucala kukho ezimbini ezinokuchaphazela iimali zoluntu. Ikhitshi, eliye latshutshisa ubunkokeli bangaphambili be-Interior kunye namapolisa, kunye nokusebenza kweCatalonia, apho uVillarejo athetha ngayo nanini na xa enethuba kwaye akatshutshiswa. Iziqwenga ezintathu zetyala sele zigwetyiwe kwaye isigwebo asikho. Kwamanye amatyala amabini, ngaphandle kweNkundla kaZwelonke, uVillarejo ukhululwe. Eyokugqibela, kwinyanga nje edlulileyo.
- Ujongana njani nento yokuba unokugweba iminyaka engama-80 entolongweni?
-(Ehleka) Elinye lixesha oshiye ngalo. Ukuba ngo-71 kufuneka ndibe nexhala lokuba baza kundigweba ikhulu leminyaka okanye amashumi amathathu ... Into endicacileyo kukuba iNkundla ePhakamileyo ayiyi kuginya njengobudenge njengoko yenze kwimeko yam. Ndiye ndacinga ukuba balungiselela ukuzibulala. Ndiye ndacinga kwaye andikhathali. Kwaye ndithembele ngokupheleleyo kuBulungisa. Ndicinga ukuba yayingumntu welizwe lam uSeneca owathi kuNero 'Amandla akho kum luloyiko endinalo ngawe. Ekubeni ndingoyiki, ekuphela kwento omawuyenze kukundibulala, njengoko wenzayo. So inye into eshiyekileyo kubo kukuba bandicime ngoba andiboyiki, andibahloniphi.
-Kodwa umfazi wakho unokugqibela sele egwetyiwe
-Hayi hayi. Ndiyaqonda ukuba isicelo sokuvalelwa entolongweni somfazi wam nonyana wam yayikukundicinezela. Ndiyathemba, ngokwenene. Kwaye ndiyazi ukuba ukuba bakhawuleza bacele ukungeniswa kwam entolongweni ngaphandle kwesigwebo sokugqibela, kungenxa yokuba bayazi ukuba ngokufa kwenja, umgada uphelile.
